Curse

echX · Jan 29, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

This Drunk title is one slow title

My friend has found a 28 days trial Mouse Movement Recording program that is able to... um... well... record mouse movements and then repeat them

With this program one should be able to drink alcohol automaticly since the mouse will doubleclick on a stack of ale every minute. So while you are asleep or at school/work, your carachter is standing in your Guild Hall having the time of his life! Life is just not fair

But then I read in the EULA (European User License Agreement) that

"§7... You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input."

Simply put, one would not be allowed to use software that is able to PLAY the game without human input...

And that I agree with fully. Bot programs ruin the economy since folks have piles of gold to spend after doing a little bot farmimg. But... Bot programs are about GETTING things/gold, this would be about CONSUMING items that you have allready bought! And you still have to PLAY the game to get the gold, and BUY the items. Then it's only a matter of mindless, soulless doubleclicking

I heard that TexMod was cleared by Anet to use in the pursuit of the Cartographer titles. TexMod does not interfere with the client/server communication. Neither would this little honey. If we look at the EULA §7 again, it says:

"You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service..."

TexMod IS software that gives the advantage of exploring the maps. And you still have to GO there by yourself, it's not like the program does that for you :P

Bottom line, would this be ok?

This little doubleclick thingy isn't goint to FARM anyting, it is a matter of CONSUMING items in the game...

Any response from someone who knows? Pehaps with reliable source references?

Any response from Anet? <3 <3 <3

Cuz' I sure as h*ll don't want to spend 166 HOURS all allone in the guildhall stuck with a rambling, digital drunk...

SaucE · Jan 29, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

I believe it would be considered a botting program.

Biostem · Jan 29, 2008, 09:34 AM // 09:34

First of all, 'EULA' stands for End User License Agreement; it is a list of terms and conditions you, the end-user, agree to, whenever you use Anet's game.

Second, you aren't going to get an official "ok, go ahead and use a bot" from Anet.

Third, whether you're fighting monsters, just chatting away w/ friends, or clicking on alcohol every minute or so, it is still technically playing the game, and thus you still fall under the "no bots" restriction.

Lastly, of all the things ANet watches for, players consuming in-game alcohol w/ inhuman timing is probably the least of their worries, so it's very likely you can get away w/ this. The question is, though, is that chance worth a potential banning of your account?

RbX · Jan 29, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

The big question is: Where is the line from automated gameplay to bot gameplay?

Anet doesnt even wants to answer the question therefore it is not allowed...but as you say: some things like Texmod are allowed..personally I tend to say that automated double clicking to consume items is not a problem.

Biostem · Jan 29, 2008, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Texmod isn't a bot. It doesn't automate gameplay. It can't be used to cheat your way to titles, and it doesn't take up bandwidth on their servers when there isn't actually someone there. Even if you were right there at the controls, and used a program to hit a self heal automatically when your health dropped below a certain point, it would still be against the rules. Play the game yourself, or don't play at all.

newbie_of_doom · Jan 29, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Textmod only changes your graphics, which is allowed. I kinda look up to drinking alcohol myself too but I don't think you will be able to bot it. If you want you can get In-corrigable Ale-hound within 7-8 hours by the 'zoning trick' though.

duckboy · Jan 29, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

Texmod isn't a bot. It doesn't automate gameplay. It can't be used to cheat your way to titles, and it doesn't take up bandwidth on their servers when there isn't actually someone there. Even if you were right there at the controls, and used a program to hit a self heal automatically when your health dropped below a certain point, it would still be against the rules. Play the game yourself, or don't play at all.

so do you consider a map telling u EXACTLY where u havn't been, tho u are not supposed to, not cheating to get the carto titles?

Biostem · Jan 29, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckboy

so do you consider a map telling u EXACTLY where u havn't been, tho u are not supposed to, not cheating to get the carto titles?

Technically, yes, but the difference is you are out in your own little instanced version of the world when you use it, and so aren't impacting the game in the same way. Regardless, it doesn't matter what I care, only what ANet cares. Also, ANet could look at logs and see that you've staying the the same town 16 hours straight clicking on the same stack of items exactly 1 min apart, whereas there's no way they could see you're using texmod.

Kyrein · Jan 29, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

plus texmod isnt a bot.....its a mod
anet has given it the ok, what more do you want?

tmakinen · Jan 29, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Anything that plays the game while you afk is a bannable offense regardless of how it was implemented. There are other means to make drinking easier on your nerves. Zoning still works, it's just a matter of finding a good portal (the windows of opportunity come and go). If you start from Serenity temple and try every outpost on the way you can usually find a perfect spot before Kryta.

If you want to consume booze while playing, I have programmed a small windows applet that beeps every 1 or 3 minutes to remind you that it's time to quaff another one. Downloadable here.

That version uses the internal speaker for the beeps and if your PC doesn't have one, you can download another version which plays the WAV file quaff.wav (not provided, anything goes once renamed and put to the same directory as the applet. Look inside C:/Windows/Media for suitable sound snippets) every 1 or 3 minutes.

If you don't trust me enough to download black box applets I can provide the C++ source code for your own compilation. Since this applet doesn't interact with GW in any way it's perfectly legal.

I D E L E T E D I · Jan 29, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Well NCsoft did give an OK for the G15 macro keyboard. I dont see why this makes an real difference tbh.

Oh and here
is the thread with the confirmation for the G15 macros.

Sleeper Service · Jan 29, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

yes but theres a difference between automated timed scripts that require no user presence at all and one that requires continuous user presence.

Id say the OP's "friend" is clearly breaking the EULA and is worthy of a ban.
It's clearly nothing more than a bot program.

The REAL issue here though is the existence of such LAME mindless afk grind titles such as these.

Biostem · Jan 29, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

yes but theres a difference between automated timed scripts that require no user presence at all and one that requires continuous user presence.

Id say the OP's "friend" is clearly breaking the EULA and is worthy of a ban.
It clearly nothing more than a bot program.

The REAL issue here though is the existence of such LAME mindless afk grind titles such as these.

Do you "need" a grind title? Is anyone holding a gun to your head, making you work towards such titles? Don't do it if you don't find it fun.

If you find some need to achieve these grindy titles, then the PEBKAC.

Pyro maniac · Jan 29, 2008, 10:22 AM // 10:22

it is not allowed, but I highly doubt you will get banned.

JeniM · Jan 29, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Anet have bigger EULA-breakers that need banning. but it's the way of the world that they can carry on and you do something as small as this and get banned

tmakinen · Jan 29, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Actually, drinking is a good way to get some challenge into vanquishing which is a steamroller excercise otherwise. When lv5 drunk you'll have difficulties in judging distances and finding the proper targets, and involuntary emotes slow down reaction time. I've been drunk all the way through Tyria and Cantha, and right now I'm wrapping up the last parts of Elona which is a good thing since I'll be running out of booze soon after (but will still get the title maxed

).

Sleeper Service · Jan 29, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

Do you "need" a grind title? Is anyone holding a gun to your head, making you work towards such titles? Don't do it if you don't find it fun.

If you find some need to achieve these grindy titles, then the PEBKAC.

??? and your comment is relevant to me in what way?

i dont need titles i dont grind for them, the fact remains Anet encourages this type of behavior by implementing such retarded repetitive clicking clicking clicking clicking titles by dangling some kind of eventual reward for doing so in the future.

whether you believe that the reward will be worth is moot.

Stop talking about guns and forcing ME anything, i dont give a rats ass if they grind their life away, im just saying that titles like that encourage botting and that botting gets people banned.

just as long as ive got equal rights to pillage, murder and r*** im all for anar..i mean Freedom.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 29, 2008, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

yes but theres a difference between automated timed scripts that require no user presence at all and one that requires continuous user presence.

Id say the OP's "friend" is clearly breaking the EULA and is worthy of a ban.
It's clearly nothing more than a bot program.

The device ArenaNet OK'd enables creating automated timed scripts which require no user presence. In fact, in the linked thread there's a guy who used the G15 scripting exactly for the purpose of automating getting the drunkard title while AFK.

I agree that using a mouse-recorder equals making a bot, but so does using the scripting ability of the G15.

In the end I think the type and scope of the bot is what matters, and as has been pointed out it is unlikely that ANet will care about anyone automating drinking alcohol, because it doesn't affect the game in any way, but it is clearly botting and as such possible grounds for a ban.

arcanemacabre · Jan 29, 2008, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

the fact remains Anet encourages this type of behavior by implementing such retarded repetitive clicking clicking clicking clicking titles by dangling some kind of eventual reward for doing so in the future.

Normally, I'd agree, but now that there are actual skills that have effects while drunk, there are ways to get the title outside of sitting around and accumulating minutes. This means they actually encourage getting a drunkard title while doing other things, ya know, like playing the game. If people want to get the title as fast as possible, then they must do it the grindy way, and that is their prerogative. The reward (title) is the same either way.

Same thing goes for Sweet Tooth, except they have in-game effects built into the items themselves. There still exists that quicker, grindy route: i.e. sit there and double-click till their fingers fall off.

Again, options are there, and the reward is the same either way.

echX · Jan 29, 2008, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Hmm, interesting responses...

I found this in another thread linked to by I D E L E T E D I.

Quote:

"Response (Donovan) 04/25/2006 10:14 AM
Hello Charles,

The macros people get banned for are programs they run to fully automate characters. The 'macro' keys on the G15 would just basically be buttons you press instead of pressing something on the screen. You should have no problems with using the keyboard.

Feel free to contact us again if you have any other questions however.

Regards,
Guild Wars Technical Support"

I think the part "fully automate characters" is rather interesting here...

The G15 keyborad is able to log and repeat as well as keystrokes as mouse movements. To run a script to doubleclick a spot on the screen every minute is not what I call fully automated. Fully automated is when you make your carachter go out and FARM gold and items.

This IS a question about wether it's ok to click a spot on the screen, not to fully automate a carachter.

And then it is always the question of, do people KNOW it's bannable, or is it just a matter of opinion what they THINK it should be?

According to the Anet support answer, it should be ok to run scripts that click on a spot on the screen ^^